I love Jesus, but I hate the church...
Well we (aka "the church") better wake up. This seems to be the sentiment of a new generation. I have our leadership team reading "Unchristian" by David Kinnaman so that we can grasp the realities and the opportunities of this cultural statement. I would love to hear some of you weigh in on this and let me know your perspective, whether you "go to church" or not.
In brief, I think we have perverted the concept of church into our own image. I believe that Jesus never intended an institution. I realize that there is a need for purity in belief and preservation of the message of God as revealed in Jesus Christ and sustained by the Holy Spirit. But does it have to be through an institution? And is God bringing this institutional era to a merciful end? And would it be so bad if He is? Curious....curious indeed...
10 comments:
I think the church institution today is only as perfect as the imperfect people that make it up. (and sometimes mess it up) To me it seems like sometimes people (yes even Christians) aren't "happy" if things are going well...so they create problems over the stupidest things or over simply nothing at all. I just have to remind myself that it's all in God's hands and he is in control no matter what is happening in the "institution" of the church. I know that one day there will be a perfect Church lead by the only perfect person to ever walk the earth- Jesus. But for now, I will just have to wait and do what I can to make sure I am not part of making the church a mess. When I sit in church and hear everyone singing together, I sometimes wonder if this a glimpse of what God has in store for us. It's awesome when we are all working together. I don't know why we don't do that all of the time! Terri
I've read that book, and my question would be, "What's your alternative?" The Church as a Movement is certainly a powerful metaphor (and reality, in some sense), but how do we work that? God, after all, is not a god of disorder.
How do we faithfully maintain doctrine, ordination, etc.? What's the alternative to SOME kind of institution? It may be that we just haven't always done well at institutionalization; perhaps institutionalization isn't an evil unto itself.
You're right...both of you. Thanks for weighing in. I'm just trying to be honest about the struggles with the institution and the realities we face because we idolize it. Good stuff!
Good post and comments too. I struggle with these questions myself. Too often I think we are existing to exist and lost our original purpose. I know God wants more/has more for His Church (not the institution but the Body of Believers) but we are missing out because of our own self-promotion. Blessings.
Spent time at Dan Kimbell's Church in Santa Cruz, CA (author of the book) - they are definitly reaching into a group of folks that the 1/2 dozen or so churches a few blocks away aren't able, or willing to serve - As a greeter, it was not uncommon to smell "weed" on some folks as they came in - but service after service they came and a clear cut gospel message was given, and lives were transformed in an environment particularly hostile to the gospel. .
PS just one more - in Dan's own words - its quite an insightful video
http://www.zondervan.com/Cultures/en-US/Use/Lead/They+Like+Jesus.htm?QueryStringSite=Zondervan
Great post Brett.
I think you have a good awareness of an unsettled heart regarding the common 'church' of today. I'm sure that God has put that in your heart for good reason.
I am also heartbroken to see the way todays modern church is headed, and how we (as Christians define ourselves).
For instance, whenever someone usually asks the question "what church do you go to?" they are usually looking for some type of corporate name. We have become so attached to church names that it can quite often hinder our work (in unity) as Christians. I'm also quite certain that there are many people right now in all parts of the world who are gathering together - in the name of Jesus... not by some corporate entity. God doesn't need names for his church(es).
I know that church names may sound a bit trivial to some, but I think its important to see how it has played a part in the evolution of the modern day church as we know it.
The Modern Day Church:
Our Savior is typically worshiped 'in community' on Sundays at 9am, 11:30am and 7pm. But what kind of community and what kind of worship is this?
In my experience from modern-day church, I may come to service saddened or troubled with something personal in my life. I would love it if I could talk to someone and maybe have them respond in prayer or in a blues song ('Where are you God when I need you?), etc. That to me is true 'Service' in Christians servicing the needs of others. But unfortunately these things are not a part of a Sunday 'Service'. (though maybe after the 'service'). Sunday Services are pre-planned, sometimes months in advance. Everything from the songs to be sung to the sermon. These things are quite often decided in the church managment side of things. If I'm feeling the blues, and if there is no dialogue / relationship / conversation happening among the congregation.. then it becomes muc h harder to see 'community' and have God's Spirit active in the church.
So instead what we get is not much different from a college lecture. We come in the doors, sit in our seats and listen to a sermon that was determined weeks ago.
But many times before a sermon we get to 'participate' in singing some pre-determined songs. Don't sing your own special song, or a song for another person in the congregation..but only the one with the words on the screen. Don;t let the Spirit allow you to do anything otherwise-or else you would be looked upon as a rebel.
I don't look at singing 3 songs before the sermon as always being labeled 'worship'. If the songs are relevant for me at the time, I will sing them (because only then can I truly be in them, and my heart is true), but most of the time this isn't the case.I try (though failing often) to worship God every day.. in every thought and action. (I also think thats a big reason why I don't go to church on Sundays.. after spending all week trying to live by faith and worshiping Him with my thoughts and actions, I need a day of rest from it. Sunday is my day of rest. I don't think that singing 3 arbitrary songs -as good as they are- on Sunday morning would change that.) But about worship (or music) in church.. sometimes I wonder who is being worshiped. It depends on the church ofcourse, but in my experience, 'worship' entailed colourful spotlights and effects on a 5-piece band on an elevated stage - facing the rest of the congregation, and after each song was performed the audience would clap in delight. Were people clapping because they were worshiping God, or could there have been another idol in the building? Sometimes the lines can get blurred.
Recently my heart has grown more weary over the growth of church incorporation. Churches all across Canada and the United States are incorporating to reap the benefits of being a Creation of the State (the legal attributes of a corporation). The equivalent would be the early church selling out to the Roman Empire.. which they did, and thus rose Roman Catholicism ('Christians' that became 'legitimized' by Rome since the church became submissive to the Roman Empire). This is happening today in America. Churches all across the land are becoming Creations of the State, and submissively yielding Christ as the Head of the Church over to the State.
We can't see many of the repurcussions of incorporation today because many of us don;t see out government as a threat to religious freedom. You will not hear a preacher encouraging anyone in church to go out and break the law (of the state). If the church is incorporated you will not hear messages pertaining to law breaking / civil disobedience, even if it is done in love and to fulfill God's Law. I think part of the problem today is that we think man's law (the State's Law) and God's law are the same thing. But slowly we are discovering that they aren't. I can assure you that a time will come when the church will need to preach a radical message of love that will (without a doubt) cause friction among State Law. But an incorporated church will have their hands tied. And if there are no consistent messages today of Radical Love (the kind Jesus preached), then how prepared will we be when the time has come for us to receive such a message?
I could mention some big issues that I think the church will need to face in the near future if it is to remain the 'Salt of the Earth', but instead I'll just name one issue.. its a simple and personal one that I've discovered this summer.
Did you know that it it illegal to hitchhike in most States within the USA? This past summer was the first time I have ever resorted to hitchhiking for travel - out of financial necessity. (Laws aren't usually made to benefit the poor). But for me, I finally could understand the story of the Good Samaritan in my own way. A stanger on the side of the road in need of some help (I may not be dying, but I am poor and do need a lift to get to where I'm going). People with Jesus stickers and fish on their cars pass on by. (In the story of the Good Samaritan the noble religious folks pass on by for fear of their safety - that the bandits could be lurking nearby and they may be robbed, or the person in need was 'unclean'). Whatever their reason - they still passed on by. But it was the good Samaritan that helped out the person in need. The Samaritan - the despised people in society. In my experience it was the drunkards, the single mothers smoking in the car with their child in the back seat, the socially inept, the drug users, the poor old man in his old beat-up pick-up truck. These are today's Samaritains.. the social outcasts that helped me when I needed it. I wish it could have been the decent people that went to church (I'm there there were a lot that passed on by) but unfortunately it was none of them. But who can blame them. DO we ever get preached to love beyond the limits of our man-made-laws? Has your preacher ever encouraged or promoted this kind of love.. for men in the congregation to pick up another man on the side of the road if he is in help, and for a woman to do the same to a woman? Seldom does this happen.
My church has no name. But I have faith that Jesus' Spirit is in me.. and will continue to work relentlessly in me until my days are done.
-Mark
I agree with everyone. We have the same God and the same Bible, so what's the difference between catholic and presbyterian (i can't spell)? I find it amusing that as christains we do the very things that God told us not to do more often than non christains - don't judge, be unitied and help each other, and love other people no matter what. yeah, we need to work on that. me included. i vote we get off our high horse and admit we're no better than anyone else no matter our religion or sect. we need to forget the labels and work together. all ya need is love.
A. We are having church right here by meditating on the word of God and fellowshipping with fellow believers.
B. Jesus Christ loves all humans (period). The Catholic church is just as delivered as the baptist church across the street, or me driving bitterly by both of them and not 'going to church'.
C. Jesus didnt come for people that are holy, faithful, 'in church' and have fairly good (perfect?) lives. He came for the beaten, the broken and the damned. He came for the alcoholic, the hooker, the gangster and the adulturer.
D. If Sunday is a day of rest, why do we turn 'Church' into an abomination by getting all dressed up, driving around burning gasoline, cheesing and lying to people with insincere happiness, judging each other, lying, gossiping, and making ourselves feel marked by sin if we dont want to give an institution money?
E. Jesus will not allow an institution to stand between him and his flock (humans).
I Googled "I hate church but I love Jesus" and I found this post. For me, I knew something was missing years ago. I blamed everyone at first but when I finally quit ten years ago I only blamed myself. At the end of this life we will find ourselves with the Lord alone and no one else involved. About three years ago a question came to me, "What if you are the only Jesus you will ever see?" I was stunned. I didn't take it as some freaky deal, some heretical lie I had imagined. I just waited, for weeks. Then something dawned on me, where else would He be? I realized I was looking for Jesus anywhere but where He said He would be for me, within me. Then something happened I never considered, He gave me a spirit perspective, from the real person He made, a spirit man defined by his Spirit Father. We are made in His image and likeness. No new doctrine just a new frame of reference which has clarified all my questions and beliefs. I have a peace so stable I can't explain it. I see people completely different, as the eternal spirit being He made. Like Paul said, henceforth we know no man after the flesh. Anyway, I wrote a book about it after putting the information on a blog for my grown kids as a reference. It's on Amazon. Just search Dusty Farrell. I think you'll like it.
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